Seems to me that the incurious nature of Congress in hearing from Wilson directly in public (or even bringing up him in parallel during the Grusch hearing) would seem to indicate that perhaps some Kabuki is at foot here...
More and more my theory has become that Elizondo, Mellon, and others (who are all very much aware of the Wilson memo) just do not want to discuss it for some reason...and more and more it seems like the reason is to protect Wilson as an "on background" source who never wanted to go public.
The fact that Grusch's entire last 5 years at the UAPTF has basically been repeating every step Wilson was alleged to have taken (including getting denied access, and told to stand down) while meticulously documenting it all for posterity and presentation to oversight committees who just so happen to have cleared legal pathways for witnesses Grusch contacted to speak directly to them would sure point to there clearly being some unacknowledged information sharing / coordination between Wilson and Congress to benefit Wilson while still achieving the same goal?
Can't argue that. Then again, Grusch was specifically tasked to look for UFO data, hence the IG complaint. Wilson had no such mandate and there were no official videos/pilot testimony to back him up in '97.
All the more reason for some enterprising / brave / willing government employee (Grusch) to track down all the same alleged SAPs that whistleblowers had allegedly been pointing to in secret, no? And all the more reason for folks like Elizondo and Mellon to be lobbying for these very specific legal protections and pathways that insure that any people and evidence uncovered by that whistleblower can come forward...at the very least, to the Gang of Eight.
It just all seems to have been developed like the perfect Supreme Court president challenge case...find the perfect plaintiff, put them in the position to be disenfranchised based on testimony of others who experienced the same thing before or are too scared / compromised to come forward , then raise the red card when it happens and bring it all to the proper authorities for consideration.
And what of Davis, then?? Completely clammed up now? Clearly he’s on the DoD payroll - and it seems he’s not going to give that up. There are so many knots now in this investigation that chips are flying into and under my protective goggles.
Yes, Schumer’s deal is a crack - but in what door? If the DoD has been protecting this for 75 years now I can imagine plenty of internal shuffling happening under the radar as well as Alfred E Neuman shrugs or “what, me worry?”
Has there been any traction with Davis? The memo reads suspiciously hoax-like IMHO.
I met Davis last year at the SCU Conference in Huntsville. From the get-go, he said don't even ask about the Memo or, for that matter, anything else on the record, because his employer didn't want to see Davis' name circulating in the media anymore. So we wound up talking about his time at Skinwalker Ranch, but nothing that hasn't been in the public domain already.
Interesting. His CV is a bit unusual - he’s never really been on the faculty of any university. His current position is adjunct at Baylor. And, many of his positions have either been in community colleges or some ‘research’ positions in the DoD. I’m sure he’s quite intelligent but it (the CV) reads a bit fishy. Plus, there’s some name dropping which typically wouldn’t be in a scientist’s CV.
Um, am I missing something?, isnt Admiral Wilson saying its all rubbish and he denies the memo and never met Eric Davis and the Ufos never crossed his desk?
You're right. Wilson is dismissive of the whole thing. But he's never been questioned under oath, especially not by anyone with a granular familiarity with the controversy. Even if he sticks with his story, and Grusch's info to Congress continues to hold up, Wilson's decision to shrug off leads provided to him a quarter century ago opens up an entirely new avenue of inquiry about military leadership's inability to anticipate evolving "threats," from within or without. Again, Grusch's testimony needs historical context. Now, all that being said, we obviously need Davis' sworn testimony as well. If he claims authorship of the notes, we've got another whole ballgame. Either way, Wilson needs to take the stand.
That's what it seems like, but why would he expect to be asked back if there was nothing (else) to say? (...unless he just wanted it on the record that he never investigated the claim... which seems odd given the potential importance the issue has.)
Plus we still have Edgar Mitchell contradicting Wilson's position:
According to the Wilson Memo, Rich Cohn and Doug Nousen introduced Davis to Wilson. I interviewed both those guys in December, and while both knew Davis, they both disavowed setting up or knowing anything about a meeting between Davis and Wilson. Again, if the Memo is a hoax, it needs to be taken off the table immediately.
I was thinking of someone else you wrote about - he apologised for any problems he may have caused people - can't recall his name. (But more denials like the above certainly don't help Davis' case.)
Vallee's book apparently contained some related info, if true:
Like the guy commenting in the reddit link, I'm concerned that Davis is the sole source and everyone else is denying the claims.
Was Edgar Mitchell's confirmation (the later 'report') Davis' memo?
So worst case scenario, Davis turns out to have confabulated himself into UFO lore. Could the scientist & government whistleblowers turn out to have been 'mistaken'? If Bush senior was still alive, would he unilaterally present testimony to Congress or hold off because someone else is Prez and making the big decisions? If any living ex-president knows anything, should they come forward at this point?
Ross Coulthart has claimed that Lockheed Martin was trying to divest itself of a craft - if that sort of information is available to a journalist, then what-the-flip is taking so long to crack this open? (One wonders how they advertise without letting the cat out of the bag: UAP for sale, including previous owner.)
It seems as if this situation is ripe enough to fall off the tree without any help. If I was a gatekeeper I think I'd fess up just to get it over and done with, rather than waiting for a knock on the door. If there has been a conspiracy to cover up - and the secret can't last forever (as long as the recovered craft exist) - then now would seem to be the time to do the honourable thing and present everything to Congress.
You're thinking of Oke Shannon, who has publicly apologized to Wilson if their connection embarrassed him (Wilson denies knowing the guy). According to JV in "Forbidden Science V," Wilson was unimpressed with both Greer and Wil Miller, who were in on the 1997 meeting attended by Mitchell, and it was Shannon who convinced Wilson to go looking for sub rosa UFO programs. JV says the only reason the unnamed contractor suits agreed to talk with him was because they wanted to know how he, Wilson, found out about 'em so they could plug the leak. JV's book also says the Memo notes emerged from a meeting Davis had with Wilson in Las Vegas in April 1997, but the notes are actually dated 10/16/02. A minor quibble, maybe, but a quibble nevertheless.
I guess my decision to appeal for whistleblower protections would depend on how much confidence I had in Congress' ability to do its job. Don't think I'd be pushing the panic button until I got a look at lawmakers' basic competence first, i.e., their performance art.
Is it a crack? Or is this another effort to bury the issue? I sure hope not but the aerospace industry has a lot of clout and potentially a lot to hide. Great work Billy!
Maybe the best that can hoped for is a version of the JFK Assassinations Records Review Board, mentioned in the article, where just enough information is released to question the official denials without the Gov having to admit anything, while the coverup guys get to keep their jobs and we get a peek inside the cookie jar. But there are ways to circumvent any law; if a bunch of ex-Lockheed execs and retired generals are appointed then that doesn't bode particularly well.
Congratulations, sir. This column is a genuine service. Here's an issue that both sides of the UFO/UAP debate can unite around -- Wilson is willing to testify, let Congress swear him in.
Seems to me that the incurious nature of Congress in hearing from Wilson directly in public (or even bringing up him in parallel during the Grusch hearing) would seem to indicate that perhaps some Kabuki is at foot here...
More and more my theory has become that Elizondo, Mellon, and others (who are all very much aware of the Wilson memo) just do not want to discuss it for some reason...and more and more it seems like the reason is to protect Wilson as an "on background" source who never wanted to go public.
The fact that Grusch's entire last 5 years at the UAPTF has basically been repeating every step Wilson was alleged to have taken (including getting denied access, and told to stand down) while meticulously documenting it all for posterity and presentation to oversight committees who just so happen to have cleared legal pathways for witnesses Grusch contacted to speak directly to them would sure point to there clearly being some unacknowledged information sharing / coordination between Wilson and Congress to benefit Wilson while still achieving the same goal?
That's an interesting theory. Or maybe the Wilson Memo is getting sidelined due to doubts about its veracity.
Perhaps, but then it seems very strange that Grusch's story very much parallels the one told in the Wilson memo, no? What are the odds of that? 🤷♂️
Can't argue that. Then again, Grusch was specifically tasked to look for UFO data, hence the IG complaint. Wilson had no such mandate and there were no official videos/pilot testimony to back him up in '97.
All the more reason for some enterprising / brave / willing government employee (Grusch) to track down all the same alleged SAPs that whistleblowers had allegedly been pointing to in secret, no? And all the more reason for folks like Elizondo and Mellon to be lobbying for these very specific legal protections and pathways that insure that any people and evidence uncovered by that whistleblower can come forward...at the very least, to the Gang of Eight.
It just all seems to have been developed like the perfect Supreme Court president challenge case...find the perfect plaintiff, put them in the position to be disenfranchised based on testimony of others who experienced the same thing before or are too scared / compromised to come forward , then raise the red card when it happens and bring it all to the proper authorities for consideration.
And what of Davis, then?? Completely clammed up now? Clearly he’s on the DoD payroll - and it seems he’s not going to give that up. There are so many knots now in this investigation that chips are flying into and under my protective goggles.
Yes, Schumer’s deal is a crack - but in what door? If the DoD has been protecting this for 75 years now I can imagine plenty of internal shuffling happening under the radar as well as Alfred E Neuman shrugs or “what, me worry?”
Has there been any traction with Davis? The memo reads suspiciously hoax-like IMHO.
I met Davis last year at the SCU Conference in Huntsville. From the get-go, he said don't even ask about the Memo or, for that matter, anything else on the record, because his employer didn't want to see Davis' name circulating in the media anymore. So we wound up talking about his time at Skinwalker Ranch, but nothing that hasn't been in the public domain already.
Interesting. His CV is a bit unusual - he’s never really been on the faculty of any university. His current position is adjunct at Baylor. And, many of his positions have either been in community colleges or some ‘research’ positions in the DoD. I’m sure he’s quite intelligent but it (the CV) reads a bit fishy. Plus, there’s some name dropping which typically wouldn’t be in a scientist’s CV.
Um, am I missing something?, isnt Admiral Wilson saying its all rubbish and he denies the memo and never met Eric Davis and the Ufos never crossed his desk?
You're right. Wilson is dismissive of the whole thing. But he's never been questioned under oath, especially not by anyone with a granular familiarity with the controversy. Even if he sticks with his story, and Grusch's info to Congress continues to hold up, Wilson's decision to shrug off leads provided to him a quarter century ago opens up an entirely new avenue of inquiry about military leadership's inability to anticipate evolving "threats," from within or without. Again, Grusch's testimony needs historical context. Now, all that being said, we obviously need Davis' sworn testimony as well. If he claims authorship of the notes, we've got another whole ballgame. Either way, Wilson needs to take the stand.
That's what it seems like, but why would he expect to be asked back if there was nothing (else) to say? (...unless he just wanted it on the record that he never investigated the claim... which seems odd given the potential importance the issue has.)
Plus we still have Edgar Mitchell contradicting Wilson's position:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/uteoob/edgar_mitchell_confirming_the_wilson_memo_is_real/
And what was the name of the guy who said he introduced Davis to Wilson?
Lots to get clarified.
According to the Wilson Memo, Rich Cohn and Doug Nousen introduced Davis to Wilson. I interviewed both those guys in December, and while both knew Davis, they both disavowed setting up or knowing anything about a meeting between Davis and Wilson. Again, if the Memo is a hoax, it needs to be taken off the table immediately.
I was thinking of someone else you wrote about - he apologised for any problems he may have caused people - can't recall his name. (But more denials like the above certainly don't help Davis' case.)
Vallee's book apparently contained some related info, if true:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1106r0q/jacques_vallee_confirms_eric_davis_met_with/
Like the guy commenting in the reddit link, I'm concerned that Davis is the sole source and everyone else is denying the claims.
Was Edgar Mitchell's confirmation (the later 'report') Davis' memo?
So worst case scenario, Davis turns out to have confabulated himself into UFO lore. Could the scientist & government whistleblowers turn out to have been 'mistaken'? If Bush senior was still alive, would he unilaterally present testimony to Congress or hold off because someone else is Prez and making the big decisions? If any living ex-president knows anything, should they come forward at this point?
Ross Coulthart has claimed that Lockheed Martin was trying to divest itself of a craft - if that sort of information is available to a journalist, then what-the-flip is taking so long to crack this open? (One wonders how they advertise without letting the cat out of the bag: UAP for sale, including previous owner.)
It seems as if this situation is ripe enough to fall off the tree without any help. If I was a gatekeeper I think I'd fess up just to get it over and done with, rather than waiting for a knock on the door. If there has been a conspiracy to cover up - and the secret can't last forever (as long as the recovered craft exist) - then now would seem to be the time to do the honourable thing and present everything to Congress.
You're thinking of Oke Shannon, who has publicly apologized to Wilson if their connection embarrassed him (Wilson denies knowing the guy). According to JV in "Forbidden Science V," Wilson was unimpressed with both Greer and Wil Miller, who were in on the 1997 meeting attended by Mitchell, and it was Shannon who convinced Wilson to go looking for sub rosa UFO programs. JV says the only reason the unnamed contractor suits agreed to talk with him was because they wanted to know how he, Wilson, found out about 'em so they could plug the leak. JV's book also says the Memo notes emerged from a meeting Davis had with Wilson in Las Vegas in April 1997, but the notes are actually dated 10/16/02. A minor quibble, maybe, but a quibble nevertheless.
I guess my decision to appeal for whistleblower protections would depend on how much confidence I had in Congress' ability to do its job. Don't think I'd be pushing the panic button until I got a look at lawmakers' basic competence first, i.e., their performance art.
Just to get this straight - Wilson *also* denies knowing Oke Shannon?
(If so, that seems to be falling within the realm of 'deny everything'. It feels like a game of Find the Lady, only it's find the truth.)
Correct. He says he *may* have met Shannon in passing, but too insignificant to remember. Certainly not a "big Oke Shannon fan" as stated in the Memo.
Breaking news, folks: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/us/politics/ufo-records-schumer.html Another crack in the dike -- a big one.
Is it a crack? Or is this another effort to bury the issue? I sure hope not but the aerospace industry has a lot of clout and potentially a lot to hide. Great work Billy!
Maybe the best that can hoped for is a version of the JFK Assassinations Records Review Board, mentioned in the article, where just enough information is released to question the official denials without the Gov having to admit anything, while the coverup guys get to keep their jobs and we get a peek inside the cookie jar. But there are ways to circumvent any law; if a bunch of ex-Lockheed execs and retired generals are appointed then that doesn't bode particularly well.
Congratulations, sir. This column is a genuine service. Here's an issue that both sides of the UFO/UAP debate can unite around -- Wilson is willing to testify, let Congress swear him in.