Billy, as you probably saw from CNN, "National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan to lead “an interagency team to study the broader policy implications for detection, analysis, and disposition of unidentified aerial objects that pose either safety or security risks,” national security spokesperson John Kirby said Monday."
Couldn't help noticing Jake's resemblance to Michael Kitz as NSA in the film Contact (1997). Ha ha.
Also, what about AARO? says Marco Rubio, set up already. So an interesting tension I'm sure he'll push at. Why the change do you think?
I wonder if the dam is breaking. An attempt to laugh off at the press conference by the spokeswoman (re the ref. to the film ET and everyone else's - I thought -nervous laughter) didn't work, even if it was a plan - I suspect not. So it's being shifted to the top level because it's becoming a political/public interest issue. And because Rubio and maybe other Senators are challenging about AARO. I noticed Avril Haines is part of the top group along with Jake Sullivan and Lloyd Austin. Then there's full implementation of the "UAP provisions" of the NDAA 2023 that has to happen.
Sullivan makes the fictional Kitz look like a Cub Scout.
Interesting statements from Rubio after his briefing. I think this was before the Pentagon kinda sorta said the 3 other objects that were allegedly shot down are also balloons. More like trial balloons to determine what percentage of the general public bought into the alien invasion story.
Thanks for the link Larry, he looks rather troubled I thought maybe thinking how this will all pan out as to how much power AARO has. As he says "why are they setting up a new task force?" Douglas has just posted below an interesting letter re "full funding" for AARO from many Senators including of course Rubio. A live issue with a tension.
When it comes to UFO/UAP, staffing and resources have been a historical problem for the Air Force. Hopefully now the Pentagon realizes this isn't a desk for exiling employees with disciplinary issues.
Couldn’t agree more! It’s time for the USAF, which is primarily responsible for the historical UAP coverup and which recalcitrantly continues to obfuscate and obstruct the current UAP disclosure effort, to come clean and reveal what they’ve been hiding for almost 80 years!
Trillions of US taxpayer dollars have been spent over the years to provide this service everything they’ve ever asked for and now they want us to believe there’s a domain awareness gap because of filters selection on their most sophisticated sensors! If that is the case and Chinese spy balloons, and God knows what else, has been violating US airspace that they’ve been charged to protect with impunity then heads must roll and we need a Commander in Chief in the White House with the courage to rein in and hold accountable what can be described as an almost rogue organization, operating by their own rules and run by people who seem to consider themselves unaccountable to the civilian members of our government that the Constitution makes them subject to. It is no surprise that the Brigadier General who the Pentagon rolled out and disrespectfully and contemptuously said if the public wants to know where the Chinese balloon was they could look up in the sky, is a USAF general.
This is the best opportunity we’ve had in a long time to force disclosure. Let’s hope the current POTUS and Congress have the courage to do so and make these “rogues” accountable to the American people as they’re constitutionally required to be.
Billy wrote, "we’ve got an All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office which, unless I missed it, remains unfunded." AARO is funded, but the amounts authorized and appropriated for the various activities with which AARO has been tasked, by enactments of December 2021 and December 2022 respectively, are classified, as is the case with most intelligence-related activities. I have seen no utterance by any of the members of the congressional oversight committees who wrote those laws (the armed services and intelligence committees) indicating dissatisfaction with the amounts appropriated by the Appropriations Committees. On the contrary, their mindset seems to be along the lines of: We have enacted mandates, we have authorized and appropriated the resources to fulfill the mandates-- now we want to see full implementation and results.
On January 11, 2023, AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick gave a presentation to the Transportation Research Board, a component of the National Academy of Engineering. It touched on air-safety issues posed by UAP, and other things even more interesting. There has been, I think, no regular press coverage of Dr. Kirkpatrick's Jan. 11 presentation, although I tweeted it out with commentary on January 16. Here's a link to the slideshow (hosted on my Google Drive).
Contrary to what I said in my February 13 comment above, it appears that some of the senators do indeed believe that AARO is under-funded (although it is not entirely clear who they think is to blame), and now are pressing for upward adjustments.
Hi Douglas, I saw your slideshow link just after you first posted. Wonderful you managed to get it. There's a section by Dr. Kirkpatrick that struck me and reminded me of the "wedge formation" of objects Ryan Graves described near the Gimbal object and the Nash-Fortenberry sighting of multiple objects in formation in 1952 seen from a DC-4 by two pilots.
So, in your link ... "What kind of information would be necessary and sufficient for UAP analyses?" with one specific "Number of UAP-objects observed during the phenomenon and indications of intra UAP-object coordination and/or communication" That's quite a subsection!
So Ryan says ... "The turn of the wedge formation, if I remember correctly, was not a ‘clean’ formation turn. The vehicles seemed to break formation to a certain extent but reposition to their original formation as they rolled out on the opposite heading. The GIMBAL object was stationary (as seen in the video) as the turn was executed. Once the wedge formation completed the turn and was flowing in the opposite direction, the GIMBAL object rotated as seen in the video."
Nash-Fortenberry ... "Within the few seconds that it took the six objects to come half the distance from where we had first seen them, we could observe that they were holding a narrow echelon
formation, a stepped-up line tilted slightly to our right with the leader at the lowest point, and each following craft slightly higher. At about the halfway point, the leader appeared to attempt a sudden slowing. We received this impression because the second and third wavered slightly and seemed almost to overrun the leader, so that for a brief moment during the remainder of their approach the positions of these three varied. It looked very much as if an element of "human" or "intelligence" error had been introduced, in so far as the following two did not react soon enough when the leader began to slow down and so almost overran him." - pilot William Nash.
They then flipped on edge, then ...
"While all were in the edgewise position, the last five slid over and past the leader so that the echelon was now tail-foremost, so to speak, the top or last craft now being nearest to our position." - pilot William Fortenberry. Just giving what seem to be the appropriate quotes.
They then all moved off together, thousands of mph the pilots estimated
Fits very well with the above ... "indications of intra UAP-object coordination and/or communication".
I'd be fascinated how this "communication" would work for "coordination", surely beyond electromagnetic in nature given the intensities of the energies involved and involving large scale quantum effects at minimum and maybe some new physics. But Kirkpatrick's group recognise it all as a scientific problem. And as Ryan has said generally ... "this is an engineering probem, not sci-fi".
Thanks for the insights, Doug. And I'd encourage readers to check out the link to Kirkpatrick's briefing for a clearer understanding of how AARO sees its mission, especially its commitment to "greater transparency and shared awareness."
The last two 'unknown' objects shot down are 'unknown' to the media and general public but probably not to the military/air force. Not sure of the reason for not stating publicly what they were but does seem to follow their behavior associated with UAPs in general. Maybe they will be more forthcoming with info in the days to follow as the media is all over it. However it does call into question on how these unknowns will be handled in the future especially with the ARRO group.
We're at this stage in the first place on account of the great research being conducted by guys like you and SCU, Robert. Now we oughtta figure out what happens when the dog catches the car.
Surely not aliens for the last two? The famous Iran Tehran 1976 real UFO disabled a Phantom jet at distance. The US wouldn't advertise a real shoot down anyway.
No precedent for that, and am inclined to agree. What is unprecedented is this clamor for transparency. Hoping the media is finally starting to understand -- if nothing else at all -- how this subject generates major traffic. Major traffic = more resources. One hopes.
Yes! Absolutely agree about the transparency. To include from Kirsten Gillibrand 15 h ago, "This is exactly why we need to be studying Unidentified Aerial Phenomena — and why I fought to increase interagency cooperation and reduce stigma for reporting sightings. Because we're collecting and studying the data, we're able to detect these incursions and protect our skies."
And Marco Rubio 7 h ago, "The last 72 hours revealed to the public what has happening for years,unidentified aircraft routinely operating over restricted U.S. airspace
This is why I pushed to take this seriously & created a permanent UAP task force two years ago" - both are tweets.
Billy, I also thought this was so interesting (Reuters) about the nature of the objects (yet we now know they were benign, Lue Elizondo has just confirmed in the NYT article) from General Glen VanHerck (head of U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command and Northern Command) said: "I'll let the intel community and the counterintelligence community figure that out. I haven't ruled out anything." after being asked whether he had ruled out an extraterrestrial origin for three airborne objects shot down by U.S. warplanes.
That surely means, yep, they do consider other objects in the "other" bucket from the DNI reports as extraterrestrial, NHI or something like. It's on his mind!
Regardless of what these shootdowns eventually prove to be, authorities who've participated in classified briefings are obviously smart enough not to say, hey, show's over folks, we're done. UAP exhibiting "five observables" tech have been showcasing our vulnerabilities forever, and maybe SMERSH or SPECTRE or whoever dispatched the presumed balloons were paying closer attention than our own strategists did. Can't blame 'em for giving it a shot.
How so Larry? Are the Chinese sending smaller craft or are they something else? I'm interested in reading your opinion. I'm doubtful we're going to hear anything from the Air Force pilots because they seem to be very tight-lipped compared to their Navy colleagues.
CNN reporting UFO shot down over Alaska may have been an alien spacecraft: “When they looked at the object they could identify no identifiable propulsion system and they did not know how it was actually staying in the air.”
The 1st balloon incident was an embarrassment due to the fat that it took civilians in Montana to spot it. So, these 2 incidents are face savers.
Plus they pushed the Seymour Hersch Nordstrom revelations further down the news cycle.
Some of the pilots sent up to investigate the 2 most recent objects reported different descriptions and some said they experienced interference on their instruments.
Going by the transcript of Kirby’s White House conference, he didn’t volunteer the Alaska shoot-down revelation. It was only after he was asked by an unnamed journalist about “rumours” that he divulged the information. Thereafter, the Q&A was excitedly devoted to the topic, and in incident after incident, albeit in the usual curated manner, the Pentagon have been gushingly forthcoming ever since.
Was it the independent resourcefulness of said journalist that prompted them to ask? Or were they fed the question by an insider in order to get Kirby to release the hounds?
From what I remember, from when I was still checking out radar data, the FAA (and presumably NORAD too) had various systems for plotting returns and at least one for identifying contiguous tracks; but track identification may have been limited to objects travelling faster than around 60 knots - as some birds can surprisingly haul feathery ass as well as appear on radar.
The possibility of slow moving, low observable platforms, slipping through radar coverage has been around for a long time. Not surprising that another nation has exploited that gap.
The reason I stopped checking radar data was because I came across too many examples of data being unreasonably withheld or limited (against the spirit or FOIA) when the incident was an interesting one... which is also why I believe that *any* interesting data will never be officially released, unless attitudes are completely changed from the top.
Ditto your comments, Rob. I'm still waiting for radar data on the Feb 2021 incident where a cylindrical object flew near an American Airlines flight over New Mexico.
Although slow moving objects are dropped from FAA screens, I would hope that is not the case with NORAD. Otherwise, someone could release a nuke EMP blast at 40,000+ feet that would fry much of our electronics.
I was denied it also and then appealed using an attorney. They have not replied to the appeal. The only option left would be to take the FAA to federal court which is a very expensive proposition.
This will be interesting.
President Biden Delivers Remarks on the United States’ Response to Recent Aerial Objects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEibBLZXweA&t=27s
-
Billy, as you probably saw from CNN, "National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan to lead “an interagency team to study the broader policy implications for detection, analysis, and disposition of unidentified aerial objects that pose either safety or security risks,” national security spokesperson John Kirby said Monday."
Couldn't help noticing Jake's resemblance to Michael Kitz as NSA in the film Contact (1997). Ha ha.
https://www.alamy.com/james-woods-contact-1997-image475593539.html?imageid=394C5132-8FE1-44FA-A033-4CF84A492115&p=1910256&pn=1&searchId=841c9ef1d8a70c58edab8a1d1bbb62df&searchtype=0
Ha! Life mirroring art, as they say.
Also, what about AARO? says Marco Rubio, set up already. So an interesting tension I'm sure he'll push at. Why the change do you think?
I wonder if the dam is breaking. An attempt to laugh off at the press conference by the spokeswoman (re the ref. to the film ET and everyone else's - I thought -nervous laughter) didn't work, even if it was a plan - I suspect not. So it's being shifted to the top level because it's becoming a political/public interest issue. And because Rubio and maybe other Senators are challenging about AARO. I noticed Avril Haines is part of the top group along with Jake Sullivan and Lloyd Austin. Then there's full implementation of the "UAP provisions" of the NDAA 2023 that has to happen.
And Jake Sullivan is as trustworthy as Michael Kitz in "Contact".
Yet another statist weasel.
Hi Larry, but Kitz did give Ellie funding because of the hours of static she picked up on her recording equipment!
Hi Alan, yeah that was in the movies.
Sullivan makes the fictional Kitz look like a Cub Scout.
Interesting statements from Rubio after his briefing. I think this was before the Pentagon kinda sorta said the 3 other objects that were allegedly shot down are also balloons. More like trial balloons to determine what percentage of the general public bought into the alien invasion story.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1625717882578472962
-
Thanks for the link Larry, he looks rather troubled I thought maybe thinking how this will all pan out as to how much power AARO has. As he says "why are they setting up a new task force?" Douglas has just posted below an interesting letter re "full funding" for AARO from many Senators including of course Rubio. A live issue with a tension.
John Kirby WH briefing today,
UAP office.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1625223848252649472
..
I was hopeful you would report on these flying things.
Regarding the guys and gals who are supposed to be noticing and reporting this stuff. It is a not an uncommon government problem.
Q - "Hey, why didn't we know this? Why weren't you doing your job?"
A - "Because we aren't getting paid."
Thanks for the update, Billy.
When it comes to UFO/UAP, staffing and resources have been a historical problem for the Air Force. Hopefully now the Pentagon realizes this isn't a desk for exiling employees with disciplinary issues.
Couldn’t agree more! It’s time for the USAF, which is primarily responsible for the historical UAP coverup and which recalcitrantly continues to obfuscate and obstruct the current UAP disclosure effort, to come clean and reveal what they’ve been hiding for almost 80 years!
Trillions of US taxpayer dollars have been spent over the years to provide this service everything they’ve ever asked for and now they want us to believe there’s a domain awareness gap because of filters selection on their most sophisticated sensors! If that is the case and Chinese spy balloons, and God knows what else, has been violating US airspace that they’ve been charged to protect with impunity then heads must roll and we need a Commander in Chief in the White House with the courage to rein in and hold accountable what can be described as an almost rogue organization, operating by their own rules and run by people who seem to consider themselves unaccountable to the civilian members of our government that the Constitution makes them subject to. It is no surprise that the Brigadier General who the Pentagon rolled out and disrespectfully and contemptuously said if the public wants to know where the Chinese balloon was they could look up in the sky, is a USAF general.
This is the best opportunity we’ve had in a long time to force disclosure. Let’s hope the current POTUS and Congress have the courage to do so and make these “rogues” accountable to the American people as they’re constitutionally required to be.
Billy wrote, "we’ve got an All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office which, unless I missed it, remains unfunded." AARO is funded, but the amounts authorized and appropriated for the various activities with which AARO has been tasked, by enactments of December 2021 and December 2022 respectively, are classified, as is the case with most intelligence-related activities. I have seen no utterance by any of the members of the congressional oversight committees who wrote those laws (the armed services and intelligence committees) indicating dissatisfaction with the amounts appropriated by the Appropriations Committees. On the contrary, their mindset seems to be along the lines of: We have enacted mandates, we have authorized and appropriated the resources to fulfill the mandates-- now we want to see full implementation and results.
On January 11, 2023, AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick gave a presentation to the Transportation Research Board, a component of the National Academy of Engineering. It touched on air-safety issues posed by UAP, and other things even more interesting. There has been, I think, no regular press coverage of Dr. Kirkpatrick's Jan. 11 presentation, although I tweeted it out with commentary on January 16. Here's a link to the slideshow (hosted on my Google Drive).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Lln8JFxbtKRw8U5KjBiLIfFOOf45EAta/view?usp=share_link
Contrary to what I said in my February 13 comment above, it appears that some of the senators do indeed believe that AARO is under-funded (although it is not entirely clear who they think is to blame), and now are pressing for upward adjustments.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NGnIToIJkaoNtRWe5t4US44UYgycLAZ6/view?usp=share_link
https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1626408321665097728?s=20
Hi Douglas, I saw your slideshow link just after you first posted. Wonderful you managed to get it. There's a section by Dr. Kirkpatrick that struck me and reminded me of the "wedge formation" of objects Ryan Graves described near the Gimbal object and the Nash-Fortenberry sighting of multiple objects in formation in 1952 seen from a DC-4 by two pilots.
So, in your link ... "What kind of information would be necessary and sufficient for UAP analyses?" with one specific "Number of UAP-objects observed during the phenomenon and indications of intra UAP-object coordination and/or communication" That's quite a subsection!
So Ryan says ... "The turn of the wedge formation, if I remember correctly, was not a ‘clean’ formation turn. The vehicles seemed to break formation to a certain extent but reposition to their original formation as they rolled out on the opposite heading. The GIMBAL object was stationary (as seen in the video) as the turn was executed. Once the wedge formation completed the turn and was flowing in the opposite direction, the GIMBAL object rotated as seen in the video."
Nash-Fortenberry ... "Within the few seconds that it took the six objects to come half the distance from where we had first seen them, we could observe that they were holding a narrow echelon
formation, a stepped-up line tilted slightly to our right with the leader at the lowest point, and each following craft slightly higher. At about the halfway point, the leader appeared to attempt a sudden slowing. We received this impression because the second and third wavered slightly and seemed almost to overrun the leader, so that for a brief moment during the remainder of their approach the positions of these three varied. It looked very much as if an element of "human" or "intelligence" error had been introduced, in so far as the following two did not react soon enough when the leader began to slow down and so almost overran him." - pilot William Nash.
They then flipped on edge, then ...
"While all were in the edgewise position, the last five slid over and past the leader so that the echelon was now tail-foremost, so to speak, the top or last craft now being nearest to our position." - pilot William Fortenberry. Just giving what seem to be the appropriate quotes.
They then all moved off together, thousands of mph the pilots estimated
Fits very well with the above ... "indications of intra UAP-object coordination and/or communication".
I'd be fascinated how this "communication" would work for "coordination", surely beyond electromagnetic in nature given the intensities of the energies involved and involving large scale quantum effects at minimum and maybe some new physics. But Kirkpatrick's group recognise it all as a scientific problem. And as Ryan has said generally ... "this is an engineering probem, not sci-fi".
Links are here ...
https://twitter.com/uncertainvector/status/1396844940563451907
https://www.project1947.com/shg/articles/tulien_nashfort.htm
The wonderful Sign Oral History Project
Thanks for the insights, Doug. And I'd encourage readers to check out the link to Kirkpatrick's briefing for a clearer understanding of how AARO sees its mission, especially its commitment to "greater transparency and shared awareness."
The last two 'unknown' objects shot down are 'unknown' to the media and general public but probably not to the military/air force. Not sure of the reason for not stating publicly what they were but does seem to follow their behavior associated with UAPs in general. Maybe they will be more forthcoming with info in the days to follow as the media is all over it. However it does call into question on how these unknowns will be handled in the future especially with the ARRO group.
Well, at $400k-plus a pop, I don't think we'll keep throwing Sidewinder missiles at balloons. Good promo for Raytheon, though.
You made my day with that article, Billy. You got me laughing and put a big smile on my face.
We're at this stage in the first place on account of the great research being conducted by guys like you and SCU, Robert. Now we oughtta figure out what happens when the dog catches the car.
Surely not aliens for the last two? The famous Iran Tehran 1976 real UFO disabled a Phantom jet at distance. The US wouldn't advertise a real shoot down anyway.
No precedent for that, and am inclined to agree. What is unprecedented is this clamor for transparency. Hoping the media is finally starting to understand -- if nothing else at all -- how this subject generates major traffic. Major traffic = more resources. One hopes.
Yes! Absolutely agree about the transparency. To include from Kirsten Gillibrand 15 h ago, "This is exactly why we need to be studying Unidentified Aerial Phenomena — and why I fought to increase interagency cooperation and reduce stigma for reporting sightings. Because we're collecting and studying the data, we're able to detect these incursions and protect our skies."
And Marco Rubio 7 h ago, "The last 72 hours revealed to the public what has happening for years,unidentified aircraft routinely operating over restricted U.S. airspace
This is why I pushed to take this seriously & created a permanent UAP task force two years ago" - both are tweets.
Billy, I also thought this was so interesting (Reuters) about the nature of the objects (yet we now know they were benign, Lue Elizondo has just confirmed in the NYT article) from General Glen VanHerck (head of U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command and Northern Command) said: "I'll let the intel community and the counterintelligence community figure that out. I haven't ruled out anything." after being asked whether he had ruled out an extraterrestrial origin for three airborne objects shot down by U.S. warplanes.
That surely means, yep, they do consider other objects in the "other" bucket from the DNI reports as extraterrestrial, NHI or something like. It's on his mind!
Apols. - heavy quoting.
Regardless of what these shootdowns eventually prove to be, authorities who've participated in classified briefings are obviously smart enough not to say, hey, show's over folks, we're done. UAP exhibiting "five observables" tech have been showcasing our vulnerabilities forever, and maybe SMERSH or SPECTRE or whoever dispatched the presumed balloons were paying closer attention than our own strategists did. Can't blame 'em for giving it a shot.
Unless you're a coincidence theorist, the timing of these last 2 incidents right after the Chinese balloon incident seems very convenient.
How so Larry? Are the Chinese sending smaller craft or are they something else? I'm interested in reading your opinion. I'm doubtful we're going to hear anything from the Air Force pilots because they seem to be very tight-lipped compared to their Navy colleagues.
Here you go, Gino.
CNN reporting UFO shot down over Alaska may have been an alien spacecraft: “When they looked at the object they could identify no identifiable propulsion system and they did not know how it was actually staying in the air.”
https://twitter.com/i/status/1624570468643790848
..
The 1st balloon incident was an embarrassment due to the fat that it took civilians in Montana to spot it. So, these 2 incidents are face savers.
Plus they pushed the Seymour Hersch Nordstrom revelations further down the news cycle.
Some of the pilots sent up to investigate the 2 most recent objects reported different descriptions and some said they experienced interference on their instruments.
The timing is just far too convenient.
Going by the transcript of Kirby’s White House conference, he didn’t volunteer the Alaska shoot-down revelation. It was only after he was asked by an unnamed journalist about “rumours” that he divulged the information. Thereafter, the Q&A was excitedly devoted to the topic, and in incident after incident, albeit in the usual curated manner, the Pentagon have been gushingly forthcoming ever since.
Was it the independent resourcefulness of said journalist that prompted them to ask? Or were they fed the question by an insider in order to get Kirby to release the hounds?
Didn't he seem awfully nervous as well? I got that vibe. In my opinion there is a huge (gulp) secret going on.
From what I remember, from when I was still checking out radar data, the FAA (and presumably NORAD too) had various systems for plotting returns and at least one for identifying contiguous tracks; but track identification may have been limited to objects travelling faster than around 60 knots - as some birds can surprisingly haul feathery ass as well as appear on radar.
The possibility of slow moving, low observable platforms, slipping through radar coverage has been around for a long time. Not surprising that another nation has exploited that gap.
The reason I stopped checking radar data was because I came across too many examples of data being unreasonably withheld or limited (against the spirit or FOIA) when the incident was an interesting one... which is also why I believe that *any* interesting data will never be officially released, unless attitudes are completely changed from the top.
Ditto your comments, Rob. I'm still waiting for radar data on the Feb 2021 incident where a cylindrical object flew near an American Airlines flight over New Mexico.
Although slow moving objects are dropped from FAA screens, I would hope that is not the case with NORAD. Otherwise, someone could release a nuke EMP blast at 40,000+ feet that would fry much of our electronics.
Hi Robert. If I recall correctly, Bill Puckett was flat out (and bizarrely) denied that particular data (New Mexico).
I was denied it also and then appealed using an attorney. They have not replied to the appeal. The only option left would be to take the FAA to federal court which is a very expensive proposition.
As always great reporting, hope you’re in shape cuz I think we are just getting started on the exciting part of this trip