Great read! And if you start with the physics/aerospace fact that *something* exotic will crash at some point because nothing flying is infallible, by accident or an intercept - probability 1 (and get picked up by somebody's military), then it'll be squirreled away and studied. This is as obvious as saying Dr. Davis speaks the truth on what he's said, if one reads what everyone says about him.
Btw, my van's a SCIF (see above) when the engines running - can't hear a thing from outside it rattles so much.
oh, you said ... "having a classified discussion outside of a SCIF (in this case the back seat of a car)." Just joking about my van. Totally support Eric Davis of course - has huge respect from those who really know him.
What was the reason for Eric Davis' statement of confirmation? Was he acting on the opinion of different legal counsel, or a sudden surge of courage, or something else?
The idea is floating around that aerospace companies have managed to gain complete control of their 'UnFunded Opportunities' and deny access to the U.S. government; despite the evidence that at least some control resides within the SAP system and their respective bigot lists. We also have to remember that such companies produce secret goods that U.S. secret agencies are certainly tasked with protecting and such protection comes at a cost. The security may be invisible to us, but the more important you are, the more you are surrounded, 'protected' and insulated.
It should also be remembered that some of the worst offences of government agencies have been perpetrated by those that hide in the shadows; not by engineers.
It seems likely that the official DOPSR position, in relation to Elizondo's revelations (and Lacatski's before that), have provided Davis with some assurance that he can't be prosecuted for 'fessing up. (If DOPSR cannot find any evidence that alien flying saucers are a protected military secret, then it's much easier for insiders to talk about what they believe, or know to be true. Nor can anyone be prosecuted for revealing it, if it turns out to be true yet illegally hidden; although that doesn't preclude any nasty tricks being played, but the more people that come forward, the less likely that becomes.)
I think you're right. The coverup -- not the necessarily the contents of that coverup, as Elizondo's and Lacatski's books have proven -- appears to be the sickness. Those who participate in it are the real prisoners, be they friendlies or adversaries. I'd like to think we're beginning to see the upside of Malcolm Gladwell's threshold theory of violence. https://blogs.bu.edu/calandra/files/2016/06/ThresholdsofViolence.pdf Cutting to the chase, Elizondo and Lacatski have thrown the first bricks through the window. Will their ex-colleagues, who would not have been inclined to smash the glass, now begin to follow them through the opening? The data suggests they will.
I get the 'broken windows' concept (I follow Blue Bloods) and I read the link, albeit a bit fast. I worry though that anomalous cognition may be more prevalent than we're aware of. There's still the chance that some UAP cases are related to cognitive 'deficits', although Nimitz would seem to be well outside that possibility. Those of us who dwell on the fringe are by nature/definition 'eccentric', but for our own reasons. Change doesn't come from failing to challenge the status quo; breaking the odd window may be an evolutionary imperative. We can only hope it's for the best reasons and with good intent.
I find it odd that they use the phrase 'empirical' evidence, which in science usually refers to physical evidence and measurements i.e. they found no alien tech; which is unsurprising for a body that wasn't a police or security agency and didn't expect to find anything. Exactly how did their authority stack up against SAP security restrictions?
In addition, the claim that the testimony was basically rumours that flowed from A to B to C and back to A again is highly dubious when our understanding is that most/all of the witnesses were either scientists working directly with materials or officials running the program(s).
If it was a serious investigation then who would you have chasing down the leads, Sean Kirkpatrick or the FBI with scientific back up?
On a separate note, the current elephant in the room is the lack of information relating to the claim(s) that an aerospace company wanted to divest itself of certain materials.
If Eric Davis did not write those notes then who did? No one is even going there. Instead we get " I do not remember" and such. A perfect alibi for the old folks especially when no other documents have been discovered to corroborate the claim. However, I put the onus squarily on Eric Davis. He is the one that can clear all this up but instead hides behind his security clearances like so many others incl Elizondo and Grusch who could give more specific details publically and take their chances on the consequences. IMO those consequences would pale in comparison to the revelations contained in spilling of the beans. That is, if those beans can be proven with evidence that can be verified in the public domain. The whole story hinges on someone breaking their silence and NDA while risking the consequences of doing so. It appears at the moment that no one is willing to do that. It is possible that even some members in Congress or the Senate is now privy to answers to some of these questions but will not publically address what they know. What does this say about our supposed democratic(?) society? Are we just pawns in a poker game?
Producing evidence and stepping forward like Elizondo did is an anomaly that should be applauded. How many people really want to gamble away their careers and family security -- not to mention the possibility of incurring huge legal bills -- in sacrifice to what may (or may not be) the greater good? If only the spooks recruited loners with visions of grandeur and nothing to lose . . .
IMO, if the revelations can be supported with solid evidence in the public domain the legal bills would not be an issue. The legal stuff would shift to the cover up and such and not necessarily the person who broke the cover up. It all depends on what is being covered up and by who, for what reason etc. etc. However, as far as the 'greater good' goes, that certainly is an open question . . . . .
Back when De Void was still going I relayed what I saw one late night in the mid 80's while I was fishing on the far northwest corner of Lake Lanier.
There is no doubt in my mind that the craft I saw was one of ours, and not extraterrestrial. It was very close and very impressive. It's not hard to imagine how much technological progress they've made over the past 40 years.
While i'm very open to the claim that non-human tech has been quietly studied over the years, the notion that some double-super-secret outfit has been flying around in craft derived from it seems unlikely. It was ridiculous in the 1940s, and at best dubious today, imho.
For one thing, it looked just like a solid black jet fighter moving at 1 MPH (or less) with no horizontal stabilizers and a glowing round jet engine in the tail that made a soft whooshing sound.
It was preceded by what I thought was a large meteor that streaked across the sky from the western horizon all the way to the eastern horizon about 15 minutes before the craft appeared from the east.
If you're right, which I think you are, then it's clear why the secrecy continues. It seems that some are ours and some are not, and it's a mystery who any of the owners actually are.
I have never found any of the popular negating theories on Wilson-Davis very compelling - though i do hold a sizable probability in my mind regarding its key claim about reverse engineering being false.
I *guess* it would not be impossible for Davis to have fabricated the discussion and notes based on some knowledge of Edgar Mitchell's meeting, perhaps as a ploy to win over the confidence of Congress into doing some sort of investigation they hoped would find actual evidence, but given the origins of the notes in 2002, how long they stayed hidden, how they leaked out (Mitchell had to die and someone had to find the dang notes and leak them before they were junked), and decades of disinterest from Congress on the topic that seems like one hell of a trick play.
I could also see a small probability of Wilson taking the meeting and lying to Davis as part of some long counter-intelligence operation basically meant to perpetuate doubt regarding US defense capabilities...
Still, if it is the former...it's is even more surreal that Schumer-Rounds have pushed as hard and this far with the UAPDA... given that they really could have Wilson come in and speak to them. And it seems odd AARO didn't go the extra mile of getting Wilson in a SCIF to document everything in a classified setting enough to satisfy all Congressional curiosity on the matter. You would expect to see more interest in Wilson.
AARO was never interested in calling attention to loose ends, so its perfunctory efforts re Wilson are a given. But Congress should've worked that angle hard after Gallagher made the Memo an exhibit. Especially given Wilson's expressed desire to testify.
Whatever they are seeing or hearing on their own must be more compelling (as folks keep hinting), after all...it's not like Schumer and Rubio aren't aware of the heavy stigma...and yet, they keep pushing deeper.
If they got a wiff that this was all a game of telephone based on Puthoff and Davis's anecdotes...it seems like folks would be dropping this like a bad habit?
The only question I have vis a vis Congress is - why aren't they,ie the Senate (especially those heavy hitters in Gang of Eight), flinching any here? One staffer reached out to Wilson, and that's it?
Great read! And if you start with the physics/aerospace fact that *something* exotic will crash at some point because nothing flying is infallible, by accident or an intercept - probability 1 (and get picked up by somebody's military), then it'll be squirreled away and studied. This is as obvious as saying Dr. Davis speaks the truth on what he's said, if one reads what everyone says about him.
Btw, my van's a SCIF (see above) when the engines running - can't hear a thing from outside it rattles so much.
"WHAT?"
oh, you said ... "having a classified discussion outside of a SCIF (in this case the back seat of a car)." Just joking about my van. Totally support Eric Davis of course - has huge respect from those who really know him.
What was the reason for Eric Davis' statement of confirmation? Was he acting on the opinion of different legal counsel, or a sudden surge of courage, or something else?
The idea is floating around that aerospace companies have managed to gain complete control of their 'UnFunded Opportunities' and deny access to the U.S. government; despite the evidence that at least some control resides within the SAP system and their respective bigot lists. We also have to remember that such companies produce secret goods that U.S. secret agencies are certainly tasked with protecting and such protection comes at a cost. The security may be invisible to us, but the more important you are, the more you are surrounded, 'protected' and insulated.
It should also be remembered that some of the worst offences of government agencies have been perpetrated by those that hide in the shadows; not by engineers.
It seems likely that the official DOPSR position, in relation to Elizondo's revelations (and Lacatski's before that), have provided Davis with some assurance that he can't be prosecuted for 'fessing up. (If DOPSR cannot find any evidence that alien flying saucers are a protected military secret, then it's much easier for insiders to talk about what they believe, or know to be true. Nor can anyone be prosecuted for revealing it, if it turns out to be true yet illegally hidden; although that doesn't preclude any nasty tricks being played, but the more people that come forward, the less likely that becomes.)
Who's next?
I think you're right. The coverup -- not the necessarily the contents of that coverup, as Elizondo's and Lacatski's books have proven -- appears to be the sickness. Those who participate in it are the real prisoners, be they friendlies or adversaries. I'd like to think we're beginning to see the upside of Malcolm Gladwell's threshold theory of violence. https://blogs.bu.edu/calandra/files/2016/06/ThresholdsofViolence.pdf Cutting to the chase, Elizondo and Lacatski have thrown the first bricks through the window. Will their ex-colleagues, who would not have been inclined to smash the glass, now begin to follow them through the opening? The data suggests they will.
I get the 'broken windows' concept (I follow Blue Bloods) and I read the link, albeit a bit fast. I worry though that anomalous cognition may be more prevalent than we're aware of. There's still the chance that some UAP cases are related to cognitive 'deficits', although Nimitz would seem to be well outside that possibility. Those of us who dwell on the fringe are by nature/definition 'eccentric', but for our own reasons. Change doesn't come from failing to challenge the status quo; breaking the odd window may be an evolutionary imperative. We can only hope it's for the best reasons and with good intent.
I have a few issues with AARO's statements.
I find it odd that they use the phrase 'empirical' evidence, which in science usually refers to physical evidence and measurements i.e. they found no alien tech; which is unsurprising for a body that wasn't a police or security agency and didn't expect to find anything. Exactly how did their authority stack up against SAP security restrictions?
In addition, the claim that the testimony was basically rumours that flowed from A to B to C and back to A again is highly dubious when our understanding is that most/all of the witnesses were either scientists working directly with materials or officials running the program(s).
If it was a serious investigation then who would you have chasing down the leads, Sean Kirkpatrick or the FBI with scientific back up?
On a separate note, the current elephant in the room is the lack of information relating to the claim(s) that an aerospace company wanted to divest itself of certain materials.
A sure sign of aliens amidst our population in a current New Yorker cartoon:
J. D. Vance sits at a diner with a menu open as a waitress prepares to take his order.
“What’s your most normal human food? Am I nailing this interaction?”
If Eric Davis did not write those notes then who did? No one is even going there. Instead we get " I do not remember" and such. A perfect alibi for the old folks especially when no other documents have been discovered to corroborate the claim. However, I put the onus squarily on Eric Davis. He is the one that can clear all this up but instead hides behind his security clearances like so many others incl Elizondo and Grusch who could give more specific details publically and take their chances on the consequences. IMO those consequences would pale in comparison to the revelations contained in spilling of the beans. That is, if those beans can be proven with evidence that can be verified in the public domain. The whole story hinges on someone breaking their silence and NDA while risking the consequences of doing so. It appears at the moment that no one is willing to do that. It is possible that even some members in Congress or the Senate is now privy to answers to some of these questions but will not publically address what they know. What does this say about our supposed democratic(?) society? Are we just pawns in a poker game?
Producing evidence and stepping forward like Elizondo did is an anomaly that should be applauded. How many people really want to gamble away their careers and family security -- not to mention the possibility of incurring huge legal bills -- in sacrifice to what may (or may not be) the greater good? If only the spooks recruited loners with visions of grandeur and nothing to lose . . .
IMO, if the revelations can be supported with solid evidence in the public domain the legal bills would not be an issue. The legal stuff would shift to the cover up and such and not necessarily the person who broke the cover up. It all depends on what is being covered up and by who, for what reason etc. etc. However, as far as the 'greater good' goes, that certainly is an open question . . . . .
Billy, it's much appreciated that you keep picking away at this one. You've managed to peel back some layers; there has to be more to it.
Back when De Void was still going I relayed what I saw one late night in the mid 80's while I was fishing on the far northwest corner of Lake Lanier.
There is no doubt in my mind that the craft I saw was one of ours, and not extraterrestrial. It was very close and very impressive. It's not hard to imagine how much technological progress they've made over the past 40 years.
How would you know the difference?
While i'm very open to the claim that non-human tech has been quietly studied over the years, the notion that some double-super-secret outfit has been flying around in craft derived from it seems unlikely. It was ridiculous in the 1940s, and at best dubious today, imho.
For one thing, it looked just like a solid black jet fighter moving at 1 MPH (or less) with no horizontal stabilizers and a glowing round jet engine in the tail that made a soft whooshing sound.
It was preceded by what I thought was a large meteor that streaked across the sky from the western horizon all the way to the eastern horizon about 15 minutes before the craft appeared from the east.
If you're right, which I think you are, then it's clear why the secrecy continues. It seems that some are ours and some are not, and it's a mystery who any of the owners actually are.
It looked a lot like this:
https://www.sandboxx.us/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Dyna_Soar_prototype-1.webp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-20_Dyna-Soar
I have never found any of the popular negating theories on Wilson-Davis very compelling - though i do hold a sizable probability in my mind regarding its key claim about reverse engineering being false.
I *guess* it would not be impossible for Davis to have fabricated the discussion and notes based on some knowledge of Edgar Mitchell's meeting, perhaps as a ploy to win over the confidence of Congress into doing some sort of investigation they hoped would find actual evidence, but given the origins of the notes in 2002, how long they stayed hidden, how they leaked out (Mitchell had to die and someone had to find the dang notes and leak them before they were junked), and decades of disinterest from Congress on the topic that seems like one hell of a trick play.
I could also see a small probability of Wilson taking the meeting and lying to Davis as part of some long counter-intelligence operation basically meant to perpetuate doubt regarding US defense capabilities...
Still, if it is the former...it's is even more surreal that Schumer-Rounds have pushed as hard and this far with the UAPDA... given that they really could have Wilson come in and speak to them. And it seems odd AARO didn't go the extra mile of getting Wilson in a SCIF to document everything in a classified setting enough to satisfy all Congressional curiosity on the matter. You would expect to see more interest in Wilson.
AARO was never interested in calling attention to loose ends, so its perfunctory efforts re Wilson are a given. But Congress should've worked that angle hard after Gallagher made the Memo an exhibit. Especially given Wilson's expressed desire to testify.
Whatever they are seeing or hearing on their own must be more compelling (as folks keep hinting), after all...it's not like Schumer and Rubio aren't aware of the heavy stigma...and yet, they keep pushing deeper.
If they got a wiff that this was all a game of telephone based on Puthoff and Davis's anecdotes...it seems like folks would be dropping this like a bad habit?
The only question I have vis a vis Congress is - why aren't they,ie the Senate (especially those heavy hitters in Gang of Eight), flinching any here? One staffer reached out to Wilson, and that's it?
You shouldn't expect much of anything regarding this topic from any politician 8 weeks before a general election.
It's not like they're getting a lot of letters from constituents urging them to force UFO/ET disclosure when people are paying $8.00 for a dozen eggs.